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Money Focused Podcast
Helping ordinary people, become extraordinary with MONEY! Each weekly episode is packed with actionable tips, expert insights, and real-world advice to help you grow financially and take control of your future. Whether you’re just starting out or looking to level up your wealth, you’ve found the perfect place. Get ready to transform your financial journey, one episode at a time!
Money Focused Podcast
EP 62 - Financially Thriving & Building Long-Term Wealth
Can you really break free from living paycheck to paycheck and start thriving financially while still enjoying life? Join me as I chat with financial coach Walli Miller, founder of financiallythriving.com, to find out how. We talk about big expenses like housing, transportation, and entertainment, and bust myths about industry standards while stressing the importance of personal budget alignment. Learn how investing in appreciating assets can change your financial life. Say goodbye to high-interest debt! We dive into strategies for paying off credit card balances and handling low-interest student loans. Walli shares real-life examples showing how debt repayment can unlock investment opportunities, like rental properties. We talk about balancing emotional peace of mind with financial optimization to make choices that match your goals and timelines. What does wealth mean to you? We redefine wealth and explore investment avenues from real estate to entrepreneurship. Learn about the FATT acronym (Food, Accommodations, Transportation, and Taxes) to find savings and improve financial efficiency. We also stress the importance of financial education and support systems, offering tips on finding a trustworthy community or coach. Don't miss this chance to improve your financial health and build lasting wealth.
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Welcome back to the Money Focus Podcast. I'm your host, Moses the mentor, and in this episode I'm excited to welcome Wally Miller on the show. She's a financial coach and founder of financiallythrivingcom. Wally helps high achieving millennials and Gen Zers take full control of their finances, to achieve financial freedom and retire early. I'm eager to hear her insights on thriving financially and breaking free from living paycheck to paycheck. So let's dive in.
Speaker 2:The question that we want to ask ourselves is okay, if I live for the next 10 years, what would future me need in order to be healthy financially right?
Speaker 2:Are there things? Are there decisions that I could make today so that I'm not only taking care of current me, so that I'm not only taking care of the wants that I want today, but also the things that I'm going to need in the future, and sort of having that balance of you know what deprivation I'm going to need in the future and sort of having that balance of you know what deprivation I guess it is a way to build wealth, right, you could frugal your way to being wealthy, but I don't know about you, moses, I don't want to live like that. That doesn't feel good to me and that doesn't feel good to most people. So really spend the money on the things that are really going to add value to your life, the things that really are going to make your life feel full, without sacrificing what you are going to need in the future. Right Today you might be healthy enough to work, but what happens if tomorrow you're not? How would future you feel about the decisions that you're making today, about how you're spending and utilizing money?
Speaker 1:Definitely Because I'm not a big budget person, like don't do this, don't do that. I'm not. I don't knock if someone is. It just doesn't work too much for me. I kind of work on like the big rock things, you know. Like I always tell people, like housing, for example and I know it's really tough now because housing has increased so much but one of the things that I always see for, like, if someone's trying to rent an apartment, it'll say things like hey, as long as you can cover the rent. And it says you're gross, three times gross. And I always say, well, that's a trap, because why are you qualifying me based on gross? That's not my take home pay, that's right, you know. So don't fall for, don't fall for what you know these companies are saying you qualify for.
Speaker 1:Look at your own finances and say, realistically, do I want to give up a third of my paycheck toward housing? Like, does that even make sense? You know, is that really going to help me move forward? Do I want to have a thousand dollar car note? And I make four thousand a month? You know those are the things like really get in control your housing expenses, your transportation and your entertainment. So I always try to stay within certain thresholds. You know 25% of my take home one week's pay can cover my housing. You know that's how my wife and I did for our mortgage. We said, forget all this qualification. Yeah, we can get this huge house and you know it can be sitting in a, you know, gated community and all that. No, what can one week's pay cover? And that's the type of house we bought. So I just encourage people to look at some of those bigger rocks and get in front of that. You'll be able to see some great traction in your finances if you get housing, transportation and entertainment under control. That's what I always recommend.
Speaker 2:Yeah, let me add something there, because I think sometimes people will do exactly what you say Right, the more money they make now, they want to rent. But if I chose to have a mortgage or rent, that was $1,500, what could I do with those $500 instead? And now a lot of people would say, well, I would spend more, right, okay, sure, that's a decision that you could have, that's an option you have available, but so is building wealth. What would $500 a month for the next 10 years do if it was growing and being invested? Right, if I was actually buying things that appreciated in value? Right, that is the whole difference between spending money on things that maybe it's a one and done situation and some of those things are fine. Like I like to get my nails done, I like to get my hair done. Right, but it's also like, okay, but if I chose to use part of my income to buy things that are valuable? Right, this is what we call an asset. Right To buy things that are appreciating in value, what would that look like five years from now, 10 years from now? Could that buy me instead of retiring at 65, retiring at 60? Instead of retiring at 60,? What about 50,? Right and make that decision, because sometimes we're like, oh yeah, they say that I qualify for a $2,000 rent payment, so that's what I'm gonna get. Sure, fine, but just because you have the money doesn't mean you should spend it, and sort of.
Speaker 2:The next sort of level is what would I do instead? Right, if I am having this quote unquote savings because I reduced the amount of my housing costs, what would I do instead? And I think a lot of people sort of miss that piece, and that was a mistake that I did. In my mind I was good with money because I used to look for promos and discounts and I was just like I love saving money, quote unquote. But in reality I wasn't saving money. I was just spending less in one category, so I could spend more in another, so I would get the cheap flights but I wasn't using.
Speaker 2:Oh, I got this cheap flight, so now I'm going to put the rest into a savings account or into an investment account, right, I was like, oh, now I could spend something else, I could buy a new outfit for the vacation, right, and it's OK to make that decision as long as it's intentional. And a lot of times we spend money because we have it and not because we're thinking how much is this truly costing me? Not just looking at the price Right Now, what is the price of this, but what is it truly costing me? How many hours of work is this decision making me?
Speaker 1:You know, you brought up a great kind of example of what do you do with the excess money. When you go from 2,000 rent you decide to get $1,500 instead, and it's 500. I'm going to give you a perfect example. When the pandemic was active, most people have student loan debt, right? So my wife and I took advantage of the extra money that we had because we no longer had to commute to work anymore and I have an SUV, she has an SUV so it was significant savings on gas by just being home. So also not eating, paying for parking stuff like that when you're at work.
Speaker 1:So we found ourselves having, you know, a healthy amount of extra cash just from simply working from home full time. So the student loan moratorium was going on and you know that zero percent interest period lasts for years, right, and I was telling everybody I could, hey, take advantage of these payments, you know, if you're still working. You know, because every single dollar you put towards your student loans would be toward the principal, and we were fortunate enough to actually pay off all of our student loans over that timeframe and take advantage of those principal only payments. So that's one of those things that you can do. That's just an example of what you can do with the extra money that you can find through kind of just working your finances. So I wanted to ask you we added that mature moratorium as a whole with, and you know, folks still have student loan debt what are some things that you recommend to the people that you encounter on how they can actually get rid of that debt?
Speaker 2:I have some clients who have advanced degrees and their student loan debt isn't 25 or even 30,000.
Speaker 2:We're talking about six figures of student loan debt and I think one of the things to really understand is how much is that debt costing you?
Speaker 2:Right, we don't want to compare having student loans and having credit card debt and putting them on the same level because they're not Now. Yes, they are both the debt, but one of them is costing you a lot more money. So if you had to think about okay, if I continue to pay the minimum payments to my credit card and my credit card interest is 24, 25, even 30%, I want to get rid of that credit card payment as soon as possible. Any extra money, any extra income I get, any extra few dollars that I earn, I want to be putting it towards your high interest debt, right? Anything that is 15, 20, 30% interest. We really want to be focused on there. Now, some of my clients their student loans are about 3, 4, 5, 6% interest. Now, we definitely do want to set up a plan for paying down that interest, but the way that I like to think about it is if you had a $10,000 windfall, should you put the entire $10,000 to that student loan. That's one option. Another option is keeping the student loan in the same way, continue to accrue interest right, that's an option. Another option is to say you know what my student loan is about? 5% interest, so it is accruing interest. But I can also buy something that can appreciate in value and something like anything, like you know, investing in a low cost broad base index fund, right, and we know that on average, the stock market returns 10%. Now, right now, we're having this conversation in the middle of summer 2024 and the stock market is up 17%. Now, that doesn't happen every summer, that doesn't happen every year. Right, we have this ups and downs. But if I was to think, okay, I can take this $10,000 and maybe add a $5,000 lump sum payment into my student loans, but maybe I can also take the other $5,000 and start building wealth that way, Especially if you have a lot of debt, if you have six figures of debt, I think it's important to understand two things.
Speaker 2:One is the numbers what is the most optimally financial decision? But? And then also, what's gonna help you sleep better at night. So, for some people, being 100% debt-free is gonna help them sleep better at night. But if we look at what the calculations are sometimes holding on to a low interest debt, something like a mortgage, something like, maybe, a student loan it might make sense to continue to pay the student loans as planned, as scheduled, rather than waiting 5, 10, 20 years until you finish paying the student loan also be building wealth on the other end. So it's not a simple sort of like. Everybody should do this, but I think everybody should think about it.
Speaker 2:Think about what's going to help you sleep better at night. There's always a question of like should I pay my mortgage off early? I'm like what's going to help you sleep better at night? Okay, answer that question. And then the next is what is going to make you? Okay, answer that question. And then the next is what is gonna make you? What is the most financially optimized way to use that extra money? And sort of really consider both options. Sometimes we only wanna think about the numbers, and then we're like feeling overwhelmed and anxious. And then sometimes we only think about the emotions and we disregard the numbers. Right, we're like, oh, yeah, I'm gonna buy this because this makes me feel happy. And we don't think, oh, I really shouldn't have done that because I can't afford it. So I think coming up with a plan is really important and you wanna really it's sort of a two-phase thing, right. Think about what the numbers are saying, do the math on it and then think about what is going to help you sleep better at night.
Speaker 2:Your decision about paying the student loans off like you really maximize that. You had zero interest payments on that. So every dollar you put to your interest, every dollar that you put towards your student loan, went directly into paying down that student loan debt, which is amazing, right. It wasn't like, oh, $100 of my student loan payment, I have $100 a month student loan payment. 90 goes to principal and then ten dollars go to interest. No, the full amount went to the principal. So that was a great decision there.
Speaker 2:But we really just want to understand what the numbers are. So I'm a little reluctant. I know people don't like hearing this, but it really depends. It depends on what your goals are. It depends on how quickly you can pay down the debt. Right, if you can get on a plan and the debt could be paid off in six months or 12 months, awesome. But even with the most laid out plan, if it's gonna take you five, six, seven, 10 years to pay it off. Then I would maybe think about okay, what could I do in addition? Right, because delaying building wealth for five, six, seven years, it's going to cost you double that in order to catch up later on.
Speaker 1:You know, knowing what your financial end game is, what you're striving for, like you mentioned, it's very important. The reason why it was so important for us unfortunately we didn't have any credit card debt because otherwise, yeah, all the money would have been toward that. So I do agree that paying off a high interest credit first makes 100 percent sense. The reason why it was so important for us to get the student loans off I had a smaller amount. My wife is a PhD, so you know that six-figure student loan debt is common for someone who has that much education. So we really wanted to get that down because we wanted to improve our debt-to-income ratio as we started to invest in rental properties. So it was twofold. It was like, hey, let's take advantage of the 0% interest, but also when we go to the drawing board and we're trying to get, you know, loans that will help us build more income, we didn't want our debt to income to be any hindrance to us during underwriting, so we knocked that out and now those student loan payments are gone. So that money is now used to just drive my rent to properties and I have a healthy portfolio of rentals in Cleveland Ohio. I live in Atlanta, so now that's income. We're literally buying income. So you buy a property, it's just wash, rinse or repeat.
Speaker 1:But whatever your goals are too, it just all depends. If you're a person that want to work until you're 60, 65, we're not knocking it, but I think your goals will be different if you're saying, hey, I only want to work five more years, you don't have to adjust. Which kind of leads to my next question early retirement, right? So when you made that decision, when you retired early, what were some habits that you had to just be firm on out the gate and you know that really led you to the position where you're able to retire early? And then, what are some things you really strongly encourage people to do today if they would like to follow that path? Really strongly encourage people to do today if they would like to follow that path.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think. When I first heard, I think I saw a very clickbaity article and the article said you know, couple in their 40s retires early to travel the world. Now I read that article and I was like whoa, that is amazing, must be nice, right. That was kind of my attitude. But then I started reading a little bit more in depth into their specific story and what I realized was that their specific story wasn't as unique as I thought. I heard and saw that there were other people also doing it, maybe not at the age of 40, but at the age of 45, at the age of 50. So I began to think about what am I missing here? Because in my mind I was like but I don't have credit card debt. I did have student loans and I did have a car note, but I was like everybody has that type of debt, right? Like am I doing something wrong? I pay my bills on time and I was making decent money.
Speaker 2:The piece that I was missing was wealth building. The first thing that I had to do and this really has to do with the mindset work that's needed is that when somebody describes somebody who was wealthy I thought of like an old person in a velvet robe, like smoking a cigar somewhere, right. I also thought about the basketball players and the football players. I thought about the singers and the artists right. I was like, yeah, they are wealthy. And I had to really define for myself what my wealthy life looked like. Now, I'm not going to lie. A first, you know, a first class seat on an airplane is nice, but that wasn't something that was required for me. It wasn't something that I felt like I needed. It was like, yeah, sure, it would be nice, but I just want to get to the different country. But I just want to get to the different country, I just want to get to the different island, I just want to explore. Like, that is more of feeling wealthy to me, right. If I can see more places that not only the US has to offer but the whole world has to offer, that would be nice.
Speaker 2:And so I began defining what building, what wealth, looked like. And then I was like, okay, what is the tool that they're using in order to build wealth? Right, because they were talking about like investing. And I was like, isn't investing like gambling? I didn't know the difference. I didn't know anyone in my circle who was investing, and so one of the things that I will say is that really decide what type of investor you want to be, because you can use different vehicles, and we've talked about this here, right? So I have rental property as well, so I'm a real estate investor.
Speaker 2:I have a seven figure investment stock portfolio, and then sort of the third leg of investments is entrepreneurship. Right, it's business ownership. Now, you could have, you can be an entrepreneur and own the business, but you can also be something like a venture capital Right, a venture capitalist, which is a person who invests in other people's businesses, or an angel investor. So, when we're thinking about building wealth, you need to use an investment vehicle, and that investment vehicle simply means buying things that are going to appreciate in value. You could do that through real estate, you could do that through the stock market or you could do that through business ownership. So think about which one feels best for you. Now, all of them have their pros and cons. I will say that building wealth through this stock market is the laziest and easiest way to do it, right? That is what this is. That is what I'm going to say. But real estate investing has huge benefits as well, right, and so you sort of want to understand what type of investor you want to be.
Speaker 2:Entrepreneurship we're talking about building wealth. I would say that that one has probably the best potential because there's no cap to the amount of money you make right, you can continuously grow the amount of business that you have and grow the business that you have. Right. Let's just think about some of the extreme examples, like Apple and Amazon. Right, it was a small little business that just like really grew. So there's some pros and cons to each and every one of these and it is okay to choose one, two or in my case I have all three, right and sort of decide what is your style.
Speaker 2:But the most important decision to make is to make a decision to be an investor, not just a consumer, not somebody who just buys things that later on we end up throwing away or disregarding, but buying things that actually increase in value right, buying a rental property, buying a mutual fund or buying a stock that today costs X amount of money and later on will be worth more money right.
Speaker 2:So we want to really understand that build a business that might not cost X amount of money and later on will be worth more money, right.
Speaker 2:So we wanna really understand that build a business that might not cost a lot of money to start, but it's gonna cost a lot of resources, of time and energy, right, and all of those things depend. If you are limited on time, the stock market is a really great place to start, but if you have time and a little bit of money, then you might wanna take a different bit of money, then you might want to take a different stance. So I feel like, at the end, really key takeaway here is that if you want to build wealth, choose a wealth building vehicle. There's pros and cons to every single one of them but just stick with it, right? We can't just try it for 30 days and say, oh, this didn't work, right, it's a long-term game and it's kind of boring. Actually, right, building wealth should be a little bit boring. If we're in it too much, if we're too actively investing in it, we might be doing something wrong. Right, it should really be a something, and I'm not saying that it's not gonna be hard work.
Speaker 1:Of course it could be hard work, right, but it's something that it should be like I'm making this decision, not because I want the adrenaline rush, but because I know that this investment will grow over time. Great advice, you know, I personally, you know, am tapped into all three, but I really really do love having rental properties because I love providing quality housing to people. You know, it's something that makes me and my wife feel really good investing in our hometown, but also the fact that we both still work and we're blessed. We have good, good jobs. Having rental properties help offset some of the tax burden that we have. So I want people to think about that too.
Speaker 1:If you love your job and you don't have an interest to do what Wally has done as far as retiring early or where I'll be doing soon retiring early and you're like, hey, I can work, you can have rental properties. You don't have to manage them yourself, I manage mine, but you can literally have the properties appreciating a value and you can actually depreciate the assets on your taxes. The expenses and maintenance and all that type of stuff would actually be on your tax return as well. So instead of you know, paying all this huge amount of taxes, you get some relief because the government incentivizes people who own real estate. So that's just another extra tidbit for folks who are interested, because it's a huge benefit. Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2:When I work with my clients one-on-one, one of the things that I like to tell them and I'm going to give everybody this acronym is that we want to be thinking about how are ways that we can reduce the fat, we want to be cutting the fat, and what does that stand for? So it's F-A-T-T. F is reducing expenses when it comes to food, right? So I know, for you mentioned that one of the areas that you tell people to focus on is entertainment. Food is very can be entertainment, right, especially if you live in a place like New York City. It's like we don't really do like barbecues in our homes, right, we don't have everybody over for like potlucks because space is limited. So we go out and meet people for drinks and brunches and lunches and dinners right, and it can be very costly. And we want to be thinking about. I want to make sure that I'm enjoying my meals. I want to have good quality food. But what decisions can I be making? And am I making these decisions based out of convenience or out of an essential need, right? Sure, we need to eat food, right? This is part of being human, like, we need to eat food. But there's a difference between having a hundred dollar meal or cooking a meal on your own. So we want to see are there areas in our expenses as part of our budget, as part of our plan, are there expenses in the food category that I could reduce?
Speaker 2:The second letter is A, which is the accommodations. Right, and we spent a lot of time thinking and talking about okay, sure, you can afford a bigger house, you can afford a bigger mortgage, a higher rent, but do I want to be doing that? Right? What are some things that I could do to reduce my expenses when it comes to the accommodations? The next is transportation, which is sure. I qualified for a thousand1,000 car note, but if all I need is to get from here to work and my car is going to sit in the parking lot for 10 hours, do I need a $1,000 car note or would I be just as fine having a $400 car note? Right, and I want people to be careful here, because sometimes it's like, yeah, but I don't like the $400 car. Sure, just understand the price that it's costing you to make a more costly decision. Right, to really understand what it's costing you. And the last T so we said food, accommodation, transportation and the last T in the acronym FAT is taxes, and you just mentioned it beautiful.
Speaker 2:One of the things, the most overlooked area is the amount of money that we pay in taxes.
Speaker 2:But here's the thing there are thousands and thousands and thousands of pages in the IRS tax code. 70% are ways to reduce your taxable income, and so we want to learn and have people around us right, have our wealthy counsel, our wise counsel around us to figure out legal ways that the IRS incentivizes certain behavior, like business ownership, like providing housing, like investing in businesses, right. So we really want to understand why am I paying the amount of money that I'm paying in taxes and what are some ways that I could reduce my tax liability? Because this is huge, especially if you are in a state where not only are you paying federal taxes, you're paying state taxes and you might even be paying city taxes is to really understand, and you might even be paying city taxes is to really understand. Ok, what are some decisions, some activities that I could be having so that I could reduce my tax liability? And you just mentioned one and some of the tax benefits there is to being a real estate investor.
Speaker 1:I love that acronym. You know everybody needs to. You know it's easy to remember. Just remember that extra T the extra T is for taxes. So how important is a yearly review of one's financial snapshot, like what they're doing for the year to keep you know? I know we mentioned taxes. So obviously people look at their financial information, but what would you say is important for someone to look at on an annual basis to make sure that they're on track for their goals?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love this question. First, I would say I wish everybody looked at their financial picture once a year, right? And reality is that so many of us avoid it. We don't want to know how much we made, we don't want to know how much we spend. We don't want to know those things. So I think really coming and making a decision right to say you know what, at least once a year, I'm going to look at every single checking account. I'm going to look at every single savings account. I'm going to look at my 401k from my work, from my job. I'm going to look at, maybe, an IRA. I'm going to look at where my financial picture stands. This is going to be huge. Now, it is going to take some time.
Speaker 2:I actually have a free resource if your listeners want to go is financiallythrivingcom forward slash resource, and on there there's a checklist of the tasks that we could do on a year basis right. There's some things that I do recommend that we do at least once a year. Everything from like reviewing insurance basis right, it's. There's some things that I do recommend that we do at least once a year. Everything from like reviewing insurance policies right, how much is our car insurance, our home insurance, our life insurance, right. Are there some decisions that I could be making a little bit differently? My cable bill is about to go up or my internet bill is about to go up, right, like, why is that? Is there a way for me to, like, make a different decision when it comes to certain type of expenses?
Speaker 2:Right, but in that financial, annual, financial review, I also have things that we want to be doing on a weekly basis, on a monthly basis and then on a yearly basis, right, and it sort of helps to make sure that, okay, we're not thinking about taxes in the summer, right, but we should be thinking about taxes in the summer because there's things that we can do right now that'll set us up for success when the next tax season comes. Right, and a lot of times we wait until January to look at taxes and, unfortunately, many of those options available to us, or many of the things that we could have taken advantage of, many of the things we could have done, that time expired because the time to have done it was the year before. So I really think that having a holistic approach to your finances is important. You don't have to do everything right, and, as I mentioned.
Speaker 2:If anybody wants to check out that free download, you can go to the website. But it really helps to break down some of the things that we want to be thinking about on a weekly basis, on a monthly basis. And then there's some things that you just want to handle one time. Right, it's like I'm going to make this decision one time and never have to think about it again. And there's some of those things, too right, that'll take some time and energy in the beginning, but you do it one time and then you never have to think about it again.
Speaker 1:Great advice. So I appreciate that. What final thoughts or advice do you have for the audience? And also close us out. Shout out your website one more time and Also close us out. You know, shout out your website one more time and also the best way we can reach out to you. So all your social media, you know, the floor is yours. I really appreciate you for joining us.
Speaker 2:Well thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate the invitation. It's been a great conversation. I would say that if you've been listening to this podcast for a while and you're like, ok, I know what I should be doing, but why haven't I done it? Like it's actually pretty normal, right? This is what I see a lot of times is like my clients are very smart people, but it's getting that support to actually take the steps that they know that they should be taking. So it's okay.
Speaker 2:If you're like, yeah, I really should have my real estate property by now. Or yes, I know I should be putting more money aside in my savings account for an emergency, or maybe I should increase the amount of money I'm putting away in my 401k, but I haven't done it. It's okay, right, but today I want to challenge you to make a different decision. The decision that you've been making is avoiding it and just letting life pass you by. I want you to make a different decision today, of saying, today I'm gonna decide to get the support that I need, right, and maybe that's talking to a friend and say you know what? I wanna save $1,000 in the next two months. I want you to ask me every day. What did I do today to get one step closer to that $1,000? Maybe your goal is to buy your first rental property. How much do you need for a down payment? What location do you want to do? What research do you need to do? What's one step that you could take today to get you one step closer to having your rental property? Right? So, make the decision today of choosing something else, and sometimes that something else is getting support is getting accountability. Right.
Speaker 2:One of the things that I have is I'm in a WhatsApp group and these are people who we ask all type of money questions, everything from what does this acronym mean? Like, I don't know? This is what email I got from my bank. Somebody help me with that. Right, because we're not taught this stuff in school. Right, we don't know these things, and to be able to find a community or find a person that you can trust to be able to bounce these ideas and also tell them what your goals are so they can hold you accountable, is really important.
Speaker 2:Right, you could also hire a financial coach. This is some of the work that I do. Right, you could also hire a financial coach. This is some of the work that I do. So. Don't shame yourself into continuing to make the same decisions. Just say today I made a decision yesterday and I just I didn't do anything last week, but today I'm going to choose differently, and one of the things that I would really recommend is getting the support that you need. If you are interested in financial coaching or getting more support, you can visit me on my website and it's financiallythrivingcom. I'm really active on social media, on Instagram, so you can like peep out some videos and tips and tools and things like that that I share on social media and that's financially underscore thriving, but I'm sure all of that will be in the show notes.
Speaker 1:Perfect, perfect. Yeah, I'll definitely include it in the show notes. Thank you so much for joining the show. I really appreciate your time, great discussion and everybody listening and watching. Make sure to tap into Wally for all your financial coaching needs.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, bye you.
