Sports Management and Athlete Marketability with Adam Spencer

What does it take to navigate the business side of college and professional sports? In this episode with Adam Spencer, a seasoned sports agent and business consultant shares insights into the business of managing professional athletes. Adam breaks down the NIL (Name, Image, and Likeness) revolution, explaining how social media is now a critical factor in an athlete's marketability and how NIL legislation is opening up new financial opportunities for college athletes. We explore how these policies interact with social movements and demographics, fundamentally altering the landscape of college athletics. Adam also discusses the balancing act of managing an athlete's performance on the field and their brand off it, drawing from his experiences with European soccer. Additionally, we discuss the increased awareness among millennials and Gen Z athletes regarding mental health and personal branding, comparing American youth sports programs trends to the European club system. This episode is packed with invaluable advice and insights into the ever-evolving business of sports management.


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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:46

Welcome back to the Money Focus Podcast. I'm your host, moses Dementor, and on this episode I have the pleasure of speaking to Adam Spencer, who is a seasoned sports agent and sports business consultant. He brings a wealth of experience in sports management, strategic consultancy as well as athlete representation. He's here to share his insights on the business of sports in the evolving landscape of athlete management. So let's get started. All right, adam, I appreciate you joining Money Focus Podcast. I know you're a busy man, so I just want to make sure I wanted to tell you thank you up front before we jump into the conversation.

Speaker 1: 1:28

The first thing I always ask my guests is to really walk us through their career journey, their professional journey and, ultimately, how you started your business. So the floor is yours. First of all, appreciate your time and your platform. I'm always appreciative when someone reaches out. I'm always appreciative when someone reaches out. When I do this, it's important for me because I want to be as thoughtful as possible. You know, whenever I have opportunity to speak to someone or speak to the world in general, it's important for me because I feel like it's an opportunity to hopefully add good thought, whatever the topic of the day is, if you will.

Speaker 1: 2:10

So I'm a current and former Hampton University student from Gloucester, virginia. I currently live and work out of the Seattle area. In between breaks at Hampton University there's a 20 year military service involved. University there's a 20-year military service involved. Spent 20 years doing that. Towards the end of the back into my career in 2012, I really began to think, okay, I've got about six years left of military service. What do I want to do when I grow up? I guess in post-retirement world. What I want to do when I grow up, I guess in the post-retirement world, right, really begin to, you know, assess myself, assess life in general. And that stemmed from being deployed to Afghanistan at the time, you know, and just having that I won't say an epiphany, but that moment where I realized, hey, I can't keep doing this, yeah, this is going to this is going to wear me down. So, you know, we got home in June of 2012, of that year.

Speaker 1: 3:18

So, as time rolled on, you know I was doing some schooling and just really looking at what I wanted to do with life. You know, I was doing some schooling and just really looking at what I wanted to do with life. I realized that I enjoy sports and this is going to sound crazy, but the social experience I had in Afghanistan also really impacted me a lot. I got to meet and experience a large group of people from a broad swath of the world. Really it was a very impactful experience and very inspiring experience. So, moving forward, in late 2016, right before I retired, I did the paperwork process with FIBA, passed their tests, became certified with FIBA. That's the International Basketball Certified through the United States Soccer Federation. So that's MLS, ussl, and I also do consulting from a sports business perspective. So we look to be in Lausanne with our partners, major Events Internationals out of London. We look to go to their convention at the IOC in Lausanne in June. Summer looks pretty good right now. Summer looks pretty packed, but that's pretty much the arc of my career. And here we are.

Speaker 1: 4:36

I know a lot of people love sports. I love sports too. So how do you go from hey, I really love sports to the point where, like hey, you actually taking a test to be a licensed agent? So like what? How did you get to that point? And what is that process so like? If someone's listening and said, hey, I would love to represent a client in the world of any sport, mls to NBA, whatever. Walk us through, like what will it take? Like, do you have to have a formal education, certifications, sponsorship, like what actually is the process to get to that level?

Speaker 1: 5:16

The international sports have much more looser requirements than what is governed by US regulations, if you will. Like the NBA, nfl, Major League Baseball, things of that nature. I'm going to say it's an easy process but it's a lot looser process because you have to understand it's just like international negotiations from a political perspective. Just take NATO for an example. Just take NATO for an example. You're trying to get 27 or how many other countries. It is now all to it to agree on something. So nobody's going to get the big, nobody's really going to get get the big win. So that translates into a lot of basic regulation. It's a lot easier an entry point to go internationally. The goals are still the NBA, major League Baseball and the NFL. The NFL has a lot more educational requirements.

Speaker 1: 6:16

So walk us through, like the whole life of representing an athlete. You know what I'm saying. So the balance of representing an athlete as an agent, but also, you know, ensuring that they're he or she is meeting the requirements professionally within their, their sport, but also looking at the dynamics off the field or off the off the court, like how do you balance their performance when they're playing and then how they actually promote their brand when they're not playing. Well, I take an approach of and this is something I learned from my military experience, you know observing the European soccer market as a whole. So those things kind of combined and I kind of got a philosophy, you know, vision, of how I want to deal with things and how I deal with things as they are.

Speaker 1: 7:09

So, first and foremost, go with the idea of the athlete first, because I believe, for as much of a geeky love I have of sports, I'm trying to get a couple. I tell people, yeah, I'm trying to get a couple of nickels out of this. Yeah, love the business, love what I do, love you, but yeah, I'm trying to get a couple. I tell people, yeah, I'm trying to get a couple of nickels out of this. Yeah, love the business, love what I do, love you, but yeah, I'm trying to get a couple of nickels out of this. Okay, so we can't do that if you're not on the field, on the court, on the pitch, whatever that looks like.

Speaker 1: 7:41

Happy, healthy, informed and engaged, right, happy, healthy, informed and engaged, because if you really look at it, you have to look at the athlete as the asset. If you want to get in this business, go back and watch the Last Dance. Look at some of the names attached. Look at how many people who were making money off of Michael Jordan were financing their lives because they were working for Michael Jordan or working next to him. From my military experience, what I learned from that as an NCO is, you know, taking care of folks. I'm now there to help support your daily life.

Speaker 1: 8:21

I look at it, as you know, being a support asset for you, for the athlete, the client, the brand, the human. I look at it as being a support asset to you. So what that means for me? I also have to be mentally, physically, emotionally prepared, aware and engaged, because I'm putting my time into ensuring you're okay, Right. So I can't do that. If I'm not okay, or if I am, sooner or later we all will fall apart. That makes sense, because if you're not okay and I'm not okay, we all will fall apart. You know, because if you're not okay and I'm not okay, we all got a problem. So what do you do to ensure that you're in the right space so that you can represent the client effectively, but then at the same time, like you said, so that you can get your few nickels out of it. If I'm not doing school or watching some old television, I'm in front of this computer reading emails or reading something that's going on in the world of sports today. Whatever it is today, to ensure that I'm informed, because part of my process is to inform you, the client, of whatever is going on, whether it's a quick text hey, take a look at this, or tell me what you think about this. Or did you know XXLX is happening? Or maybe it's because that's one of the conversations of the day. The media negotiations that the NBA is going through yeah, I've seen that that's a very important thing. Uh, media negotiations that the NBA is going through yeah, right, yeah, that's a very important thing because that resets salary caps. It looks like it's about to double right, double Crazy In terms of like marketing and just branding your clients like what.

Speaker 1: 10:25

What have you seen that that's changed over the last few years since you started? Social media is now your entry point to marketing, it's your public relations assistant and it's the storyteller behind your brand. What do I mean by that storyteller behind your brand? What do I mean by that? I would say 2015, 2016, and this is before nil anybody with any kind of thought of high draft value for whichever sport.

Speaker 1: 11:05

Your shoe deals, your marketing deals, the commercial stuff all became based off of how many social media followers you had. I don't care how good you were on the field, if you couldn't back that with a million, you know whatever that number was at the time. Let's say you had a million followers, or two or three million followers, you know whatever the you know higher number of the time was. If you couldn't back that up with X amount of followers, you were boring. You were just a baller Right, that has its own connotation as it is, but yeah. So that started happening and right around the same time, stuff like the Players Tribune picked up steam. So now you had your own PR communications director being you and whatever I If I'm KD with the burner towel clapping back at folks, if I'm LeBron going 0-30 during the playoffs, right, you had a public relations public spokesperson. Whatever context or connotation was behind that picture you posted on Instagram. Now you were speaking to people and you see that carry forward.

Speaker 1: 12:21

Now I wanted to back up because NIL I know you said before NIL, but you know it might be a variety of people. I know it's a variety of people that listen to the show what exactly is NIL and why was it such an impactful decision to the world of college athletics? Well, I'll tell you, it's supposed to be your name, image and likeness. Now, what they're doing. There's some NIL in it, there's some yeah, there's just some money from the boosters in it. Okay, it's also getting to a place where it's going to force revenue sharing at the collegiate level. What NIL has done, obviously you know you don't have to really follow college athletics to know that it's changed the game. But it's changed the game and partly because of the timing of it.

Speaker 1: 13:15

So, if we remember the pandemic, nil came right in the middle of it. So, if we remember the pandemic, nil came right in the middle of it. What also came within that time period was transfer portal. So there's basic freedom of movement in the college landscape, if you will. What else came behind that Realignment? Well, what else came behind that Realignment? All of those things came together and bang, you've got the environment we have now Set.

Speaker 1: 13:46

Athlete can get a $5 million endorsement deal with whoever, or a free car for four or five years. I have a lot. I'm on campus from you name it local Range Rover, Range Rover dealer, lamborghini dealer, mercedes dealer, or I can go into raising, raising canes, a taco bell whenever I want to. Essentially Right, like cause, like before, all that stuff was against the rules. So, yeah, so like, with this nil, the name, image and likeness, you know, these college athletes are now able to profit from name, the name itself, like their name, the image and likeness, whereas before, like they, they couldn't do any of that. You know. Know they were considered amateurs, students In the moment. The professional tag was kind of tapped on them where they're getting paid for what they do. Then they would lose eligibility, you know, they would be deemed as a cheater and hurt their draft status when they try to go to the pros, which I always thought was crazy. So, but that's, in a nutshell, what changed, right? So you know you can go to college, enjoy the college experience, but have some of the perks of your success and be open about it, right?

Speaker 1: 15:10

Well, I look at it as three to four basic pillars now, as NIL has done all of those things between NIL, the transfer portal, realignment have all come together. I looked at it as about three to four different pillars. There's a social aspect which folks don't like to talk about. There's obviously the financial. There's a political aspect which we we totally ignore and there's a policy off of that. There's a policymaking aspect. We totally ignore the other two parts of it. I'm a little new to the party. I'm thinking more about the financial part. So, yeah, you know, talk us through the other two that you have firsthand experience on.

Speaker 1: 15:54

So we'll start with the social aspect of it. If we look at college athletics, too many drivers football and basketball. With basketball it's both the men's and the women's. All you got to do is pay attention. Nowadays you'll see women's games just as much of a revenue driver as the men's game. Yeah, it sure is. We're at a place now with women's basketball where the general population knows more to women's players than they do to men's players.

Speaker 1: 16:24

So from a social aspect, you have to look at that with those two basic entities. You're looking at things that start off demographically where we start off out the gate at 60 to 70% Black Yep. Depending on your school, it might be 100% Black Off. Of that, let's just say the number is somewhere between 60 to 80% Black. Another 10% of that is going to be Hispanic, polynesian Black and Brown. This is where the Black and brown conversation comes in now. Right, okay, let's go off of that. There's another large percentage of that that's going to be some member of the LGBTQIA plus community. Hopefully, I got all of that right. Here's your social With the money involved. There's, you know, obviously there goes the financial. As with anything, folks see the social demographic able to monetize itself.

Speaker 1: 17:32

Here comes political regulation with policy. All of a sudden, as NIL has been put in place and the NCAA keeps losing court cases, you keep hearing this word right to work. What does that mean? They're basically they're trying to frame right to work laws into saying, yes, this is your, this is a job, what you are doing, whether it's a swim team, golf team, oklahoma football, georgetown basketball, this is a job. Now they're framing it around this word of right to work. If you look at it from a political perspective, there's 25 to 27 states that have right to work laws, basically giving the worker the option of joining a union or not. Okay, I don't care which political leaders are, you deal with that. Joe Biden only won five of those states Of the right to work states. Yep, yeah, one of the very obvious things that would seem to be right there in front of your face, especially the student athletes face, would be collective bargaining, revenue sharing and unionization. So, yes, they're saying this is the job, but you've got a conservative movement trying to protect itself by throwing in that word right to work.

Speaker 1: 19:08

If you pay attention to the conversation about the changes that are going on in college athletics, the athletes gain more of a foothold because of the financial standing that they now have. Dartmouth has already done it. They've said their basketball team can unionize UAB. Now the football team is looking to unionize and UAB, now the football team is looking to unionize and get involved in revenue sharing. What's the thing that can stop all of this? Most of these schools, most of the major schools you talk about, are land grant institutions. In other words, they get state funding. Okay, now all you have to do is just look at the SEC. Like you said, the NCAA has been missing out on those, a lot of those lawsuits. So now I did right now. So they got to look for ways to protect the institution.

Speaker 1: 20:05

The term student athlete has never been a thing. It was a made up argument in a court case. It was the NCAA I believe it was the 84 case that kind of opened up the television regulations where you got to the point where everybody was on television. So the idea of a student athlete was a made up argument. If I'm not mistaken, that was the case where that first came up with. The idea of a student athlete was a made up argument. I'm not. If I'm not mistaken, that was the case where that first came up with. The idea of a student athlete first came to be. There was never been such truth, any true such thing as a student athlete. It's just a made up argument during legal proceedings to have control, basically for institutions and the NCAA to basically control the finances.

Speaker 1: 20:54

I appreciate you breaking that down. I mean that definitely opened my eyes on what the potential factors, because in a lot of ways it's real easy to look at the benefits for the players right now because you see them on commercials and all that. But really what's happening in the background is they're really setting things up to where it's, to a limit on how successful you can be. You know Exactly what about now, shifting gears back to, like you. You know in your industry, as far as sports management and consultancy, what are some trends that you're seeing that you know impact someone that wants to be like you on this side of the house. Are there any things that are positives or potential? You know red flags that are in your lane? The positive is basically the millennium anybody born after 1985 and young. The millennium anybody born after 1985 and younger.

Speaker 1: 22:00

Ok, what you have and this is me being a gen, the back end of Gen X being jealous now and socially aware of their own mental health, of their own person and persona and aware of the world around them. So I hate to put it in these terms, but in general, you're getting a much more complete person at age 18, age 19, age 20. You're saying that and with the folks you're interacting with, they're more well-rounded. Yeah, you see it with folks that you're interacting with and you see it in the athletes on television, the athletes in a broader perspective. You see much more broader perspectives and you're coming to a place where they have to deal with the world that they live in. Also, now that that could be a challenge for the athlete, because you can either show your goodness or show or truly show who you are. Yeah, what also? What also comes with that is you're getting a much more informed client now for me and me and what I do. I can't be shooting some crap to you.

Speaker 1: 23:17

Youth sports has gotten so suburbanized now that a lot of the kids that are considered high-level elite athletes now they've got personal trainers. Personal trainers also have professional athletes at these facilities. They're going to so young high school athlete a lot of times able to draw knowledge from a pro or an old pro. Now is you're getting what had been going on in Europe all along as, for example, cross-sectioning the American experience here now, because in Europe you had a club system. So take a soccer team like Manchester United. So if I'm good enough as a youth, I'm with the club from, let's say, age nine.

Speaker 1: 24:13

I may not be interacting with them every day or sitting there talking to them at their knee every day, but I get to see the pro in the first scene go to work every day. I may be cleaning his or her boots, I may be the ball boy on game day. I get to see that professional. Maybe not every day, but three, four times a week. I see that professional go about his day. You're starting to see that professional, maybe not every day, but three, four times a week. I see that professional go about his day. You're starting to see that now cross-section in the US now with the professional trainers, because the AAU teams, the 707, everything that has nothing to do with high school athletics is getting more credence than what you do on the actual high school field. Now A lot of that is due to the suburbanization of it Doesn't mean that said athlete is suburban but he or she's got access. Now because of that personal trainer, that AU team, that 707 team, got access to suburban resources. Now With that comes more often than not, also a level of understanding because of the information that's being passed back and forth.

Speaker 1: 25:20

Now to where you know situations with NIL or signing with an agent or whatever the case may be. They don't go into the situation totally blind. If you follow this last NFL draft and you peep some of the conversations that they were having about Caleb Williams and Marvin Harrison, the oh my God, they don't have an agent. Oh my God, they haven't signed with this. Oh my God, they haven't done this. Well, no, caleb Williams has been the number one draft pick. They've been telling that boy. He was the number one pick since he stepped on the field at Oklahoma. Look at Marvin Harrison. Marvin Harrison Jr. Okay, they've been telling that kid he's the best player in college football for two years and oh, by the way, his dad's got a gold jacket. So these kids they're coming into situations now without having to have some of the same concerns that somebody who came in 20 years and was entering the league 20 years ago have. They're coming in armed with more information. So they're not just signing everything or signing themselves away, put it that way.

Speaker 1: 26:59

And what we also got to understand the crop of kids that graduated high school in 2021 were the first set of kids to go through their college experience with NIL from day one. So that means they were making a business decision when they signed that letter of intent and knew it Every kid since. Now, when you choose a personal trainer or choose an AAU team, a 7-on-7 team, a travel ball league team, you're now making a business decision also. Ball league team, you're now making a business decision also, and every step of the way you go now from that point on, in sports, you're either making a business decision or someone else is making it for you, as opposed to all about just performing well in your sport and then, once that light switch comes on to say, hey, I want to go to go pro, then you think you know, OK, well, I need an agent to kind of help me with that, I need this, I need that, I need this, but it's already in play already, right?

Speaker 1: 28:06

So let me ask you this then, because so what would be the strategy for someone who who's an agent like yourself, who who's an agent like yourself? Like? Do you? Do you target maybe not the top tier talent and maybe people that are not getting NIL money? You know something like that and really kind of look for more potential? You know, because it's always players that are late draft round draft picks or undrafted or whatever, that make the league and become successful. I mean, is that maybe like a crop of talent you work with, as opposed to the people already knee-deep in NIL money? Not so much that this is becoming more and more about getting in with the young person at the lowest level possible. Got to get early, okay.

Speaker 1: 28:54

So if it's soccer, I can start dealing with him and his family when they join. Let's take Philadelphia Union or Charlotte FC's youth team, academy team. I can get involved with them. Then Mom and dad sign off on it. I can be involved with them. Then the agents are at the AAU tournaments, just like the NBA scouts are, because so much more has been legalized now. The athlete himself, him or herself, and the family or those around him now they're having conversations with agents and different brands and companies for deals now. So that kid's got more of a team generally, especially the higher profile. They've got more of a team around them now than, let's say, 10, 12 years ago. Got it.

Speaker 1: 29:52

And for someone who wanted to start a career in sports representation today, what would you tell them? The first thing they need to do, or just some first few things they need to do to really get started? First of all, have a plan for your own maintenance Mind, body and soul. Because, as I said earlier, you're going to go into a space where you're dealing with someone else's well-being 24, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, and that's a dynamic thing. It's very fluid, it's always going to change. But begin to build some sort of process for your own personal maintenance. Understand what your boundaries are.

Speaker 1: 30:34

Then I would start to look at the different governing bodies. That could be the IOC, that could be the IAAF, that could be FIFA, that could be FIBA, that could be the NFL, nba, mls, united States Soccer Federation, different federations, nhl. Go read their websites, look at the requirements that they have in place, the regulations that they have in place to become an agent, so you have a grasp of what's required of you and, moreover, what are the different education requirements for the different sports. I want to make sure I know all the requirements ahead of time so I can do the application, send my money off, prepare for the test, take the test and move forward. Wow, I was just about to ask you what type of financial commitment could that be to kind of get approved, saying you know the audience would know like does it cost a lot of money to start that process of approval?

Speaker 1: 31:37

Depends on the organization. Some are a couple hundred dollars, others are a thousand dollars for the application fee, take your test and then you have a yearly registration fee. That could be $1,000. That could be $500. That could be a couple of thousand dollars on a yearly basis. Then, depending on the state you want to work out of, you may have to be bonding. So Washington State doesn't have those regulations. So I'm good.

Speaker 1: 32:12

But you want to inform, you know, as you go through this process. You want to look at okay, where am I working out, what are the regulations on sports agents if I'm in Alabama, the state of Alabama, if I'm in Georgia, what are the regulations for the state of Georgia? So there's those. Those will obviously be fees also that come with those to be bonded to work in that state. What about like fees, typical agent fees? Is there a percentage? Yeah, walk us through like a typical. I'm sure it's some customization at times. What was the typical fee that an agent would charge for their representation? Now, if you're doing your job properly, you'll be looking at said governing body's regulatory fee information. They will set the fees you can charge depending on the sport, the country and the governing bodies. You can charge 10 percent commission. I believe the NFL has gone down to one percent commission. So it sounds like you got to really understand the organization you're going to be representing athletes with. You got to understand the impacts of what you're working out of what country, what state. So it's a lot of factors. So appreciate it, it's a lot more factors than I think people would initially think. Cool.

Speaker 1: 33:43

What final advice or thoughts would you like to share with the audience around the sports management industry and also, once you're done with that, share your contact information, whether it's website, social media? So the floor is yours. First of all, I want to say I appreciate the platform. I hope and pray I was somewhat thoughtful and insightful for you. Absolutely the greatest piece of information I could give you is to inform yourself. If you're the athlete, inform yourself. If you're a parent, inform yourself, because that child of yours now is going to become if he or she is that good, they're going to become the center of your universe too. That child's going to want to put you into retirement. They're going to want to put you in a house. So now you have to support them in a way that you didn't think you would ever have to do. I think that is the greatest strength you can have is information and the ability to use it properly.

Speaker 1: 34:53

Adam Spencer, spencer Group International. That's all you got to do. Type it in Twitter, linkedin, instagram. We're there, gotcha, and you know I'll definitely put all your contact information in the show notes, and you know I'll definitely put all your contact information in the show notes. So whoever's watching or listening. Just check the show notes so you can tap in to Adam. So I just want to say thank you again. This is definitely not a topic that I've touched on with the show, so you were able to come in and give us some insight on, you know, the world of sports management, on the world of sports management, and then we definitely touched a lot on NIL for those who aren't familiar with it and some of the other factors outside of financial that I think is truly valuable. That was the best part for me. So I really appreciate you joining the show and we're out. Hey, peace, grace and mercy to you, brother. Peace.